On the Horizon: Expanding the VMware and AWS collaboration with VMware Horizon and Amazon WorkSpaces Core

Just a few weeks ago at VMware Explore, I presented a session called “What’s New in Anywhere Workspace.” In that session, I showcased many new innovations in our VMware Horizon solution, including enhancements to our VMware Blast protocol, next-generation hybrid cloud support, and improvements in scalability. Another key announcement was our collaboration with Amazon Web Services for Horizon on Amazon WorkSpaces. I encourage you to watch the recording to see how our Horizon 8 platform can bring the power of our Blast protocol to Amazon WorkSpaces. We’re partnering to provide an optimized user experience for Amazon WorkSpaces end users across devices, locations, media, and network connections. Customers can also benefit from the hybrid cloud virtual desktop infrastructure (VDI) management capabilities of Horizon 8, from on-premises to Amazon WorkSpaces.  

Today, we are excited to build on our collaboration with Amazon to provide even more flexibility and choice for desktop and app virtualization infrastructure with Horizon and Amazon WorkSpaces Core integration. In addition to deploying Horizon virtual desktops on-premises and VMware Cloud on AWS, when available, customers will be able to also deploy Horizon virtual desktops on Amazon WorkSpaces and on Amazon WorkSpaces Core. Amazon WorkSpaces Core extends Amazon WorkSpaces services by providing a set of new APIs that can be used for integrations by partners like VMware to seamlessly provision and manage Amazon WorkSpaces Core capacity.  

Host: Andy Whiteside
Co-Host: Shawn Bass

Transcript

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Andy Whiteside: Hello, everyone! Welcome to episode twenty-six of on the horizon of your host, Andy. We've got a special guest this week sean bass with V, and we're Shawn. You go way back in the Euc world. Uh start from the beginning, but

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Shawn Bass: kind of roll through the beginning and and all the different jobs you've had, and what you did, and why your uh, Why, you have the credibility to do what you're doing today. Yeah, thanks. I appreciate you having on the on the podcast on the video. Um, So I've been to Uc. Space for about twenty-five plus years. I I started out uh doing, consulting. I work for an integrator in the midwest. That was a big citrix partners. So I kind of my heritage in the Uc. Spaces and the citrix and kind of Microsoft world, and I had been doing that for a long time. I ran my own consulting

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Shawn Bass: practice for about uh sixteen years after I left that integrator, when went on, struck out on my own, and I ended up hanging up my integrator hat in two thousand and fourteen when I joined Vmware, and the reason I joined Vmware is back at that time uh Vm. Where, you see, was going through a surge of growth. They had made the opposition of their watch. About a year a year and a half prior to that Um. I joined Vmware just after the acquisition of uh cloud volumes which later became our

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Shawn Bass: our app volumes technology. And I've been with, you know. We now for about eight years since then helping uh helping lead the Ec strategy here,

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Andy Whiteside: and it's uh It's certainly come a long way, and Vmware had to have the vision. Okay, so look we a lot of us come from a world where you know, we were born in the Uc. Space in the citrix world. But then we all see what else was out there, and watching this thing take off like a rocket ship since I'd say the timeframe would be, and we're showed up and started challenging um the solutions and morning to make them better. And and, to be honest, it's It's good for everybody in the space, because it drove the option of new stuff.

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Shawn Bass: Well, I think you know, in a lot of ways, you know. Cfix was really a an unchallenged company for for so many years when they were um when they were doing. You know they'll be game in town really, for for our Bsh back in the day, and um, you know, for a long time Vm. Where you see didn't do published applications uh, and in a terminal server Early station passes, so that wasn't until I want to say it was two thousand and fourteen, I believe, when we first introduced our Rdsh capability, and that was again one of the things that precipitated

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Shawn Bass: me kind of joining Vmware because they were getting much more robust uh in their Ec. Offerings, and you know by that point in time Vmware had already acquired a a desktop as a service provider desktop, which became the sort of the sort of first version of Verizon Cloud. I was a technology adviser desktop, So I I kind of do that was coming uh before the acquisition happened. But yeah, slowly but surely, we really been building more and more capabilities and any other space, and that would say in a lot of ways, Um, you know, we we work

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Shawn Bass: doing a lot of catch up to Citrix in the early days of of organization, that kind of stuff. But I really think, you know, throughout the last. Probably, you know, six to eight years. We've really kind of leapfrog from an innovation point of view and via we're easy is really kind of synonymous with uh a lot of the latest, greatest innovations and end user computing when i'm really driving a lot of net new innovation. Um, you know, we we released a feature relatively recently that um i'm really excited about, which is our integration with service now,

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Shawn Bass: so that you can, you know directly from service. Now. Uh, look at all of your devices that you're managing with workspace one Uvm. And be able to access enterprise features like you know, wiping a device or initializing a remote support session with workspace. One assist, and you know, other vendors have taken notice. A lot of the innovation that we do. And then, you know, they end up developing the same, you know, features and capabilities. So um you see at least Vm. Where you see it's really been kind of leading the market with new innovations the the last

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six to eight years. That's an exciting place to be

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Andy Whiteside: So I I love that you brought up some of the things right, and in your computing is so vast, and includes so much. I'm just going to walk through them with you real quick and get your take. So the fact that Vmware took that in point management story Ak: the acquisition of air Watch Seriously, they had to make you think they were in it doing it? Right?

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Shawn Bass: Yeah, I think you know, back in those days, when we did, the acquisition of of air watch was like roughly, two thousand and thirteen timeframe, you know, Air watch was a mobility, only technology back. Then, you know, It's really focused on on Ios and Android, and a little bit of promo less in there as well. Um! But what we really did with the concept of uh mobile device management does really involve that into a whole new category of unified endpoint management. And that's something that you know. Vmware is very proud to have led the direction in the market which we see now

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Shawn Bass: a lot of our competitors adopting the same concept that you know endpoint management shouldn't be different for mobile devices. Desktops. I mean, if you think about what happens in the life cycle of a device, whether it's a desktop, laptop, or a mobile device, all of the same functions that you would do on those devices like imaging or provisioning and inventory of hardware and software, and deploying new applications and managing security patches and compliance like

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Shawn Bass: the functions Aren't. Really that different on Mobile versus desktop. Yes, the tools you use and the way you do things might be slightly different. But if you look at the trend that modern management has taken people. The desktop world are recognizing the value of being able to patch devices over the er like we've been doing on Mobile for many, many years, and a lot of the same constructs or concepts that have happened in the mobile world like taking a device out of a box and provisioning it over the air is something now that is

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become commonplace in the desktop world. But you know, ten years ago nobody was thinking of that.

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Shawn Bass: Uh, if you were still out there building computers and installing applications, and even doing it by hand, or some kind of legacy way. And yeah, and the the frustrating part of it is not just that you've got multiple different tools to do it. It's the inefficiencies and the people process problems of having different teams that do it in different ways. And you know what we kind of did with unified endpoint management is kind of flip things on their head a little bit, you know. Put the user at the center of all of it, and and focus everything on how you provision

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Shawn Bass: to the, to the customer and the user as opposed to thinking about the it, tools and tactics for managing the devices. So it's. It's kind of a new way of thinking of things. But the good news is, the entire industry is is really headed in that direction.

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Andy Whiteside: I I have one question. I'm gonna ask you next. I'm gonna skip it for now and go straight to um the con. Your comment a minute ago about service. Now, I didn't actually know about that integration. And the idea is okay. We've taken manage the endpoint. Now, we're going to manage the entire experience from this centralized platform. That's extremely extensible. Uh that. That's exciting to me to know that. Uh, that you guys are thinking at all those on that scale, the ability to continue to provide solutions from that centralized

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Shawn Bass: system that's running it. Well, you know I service now is really taking the its and world by storm, and and we see them in in all of our customer environments. Now they've just been such a dominant force, and and what we realized is all these customers are using service now to to do things for end users and user devices. But when it comes to fulfilling an it related problem for an end user device, it's like, Okay, let me leave my service now console and go over to this other admin console whether it's a

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Shawn Bass: a virtual desktop product or an Rdsh product or a mobile management product. And then i'm gonna log into that. Then i'm gonna look the user up again, and i'm gonna find their device. And then i'm gonna do something to troubleshoot it, and we recognize that entire workflow is so inefficient, so much duplicate, that for going between all these different screens and signing in and searching. And we said, Why, Don't, we just go where the help desk already is, you know. Tier one level, one help desk. They're already on a end user related record.

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Shawn Bass: They can retrieve from us out of workspace one the list of the devices that the user has available to them if they're signed in on whether it's a windows, Mac. You know Ios android device. Why, Don't, we give them a set of troubleshooting tools? They can do right then and there in that same context, and screen, because to us it's just a couple of Api calls to call into workspace one, and let's say, do an enterprise, wipe or wipe an application cache or re push an application or tell the user hey? I'm gonna

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Shawn Bass: initiate a remote control request when you accept it, i'm gonna step you through your troubleshooting problems. And if we can do all of that directly in where, where that help, this technician is, and meet him where they are, rather than saying, here's forty-two other steps you got to do in these six other consoles that just makes it that much more efficient for the service desk to to get it problem solved quicker. And you know, in the itsm world like you know. Uh, faster, first call resolution, less time spent on the phone, the more that we can help them

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Shawn Bass: close tickets quicker. User satisfaction goes up. Help! Desk. Efficiency goes up and we end up with a lot happier customers all around. So Yeah, we we did just launch that pretty recently, I want to say was maybe about three to six, maybe eight months ago. Uh, it does depend on some specific versions of a service. Now it's got to be the Quebec uh Sas release or later. But um, yeah, we're really set about that feature just in terms of, as I said, like really improving the efficiency of the service desk. And in the end we try to make the end. User

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Andy Whiteside: I'm. Excited about our experience. Better if we can help them get service by the help desk faster. That's a happier customer. Yeah, i'm excited about. We today is day one of what i'm calling modern apps. We started our modern Apps division today. We've been doing service now. Work a little bit

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Andy Whiteside: uh, but we start on modern Apps division today, and the main technology over there is service. Now bring it to that division started literally eight Am. This morning, and what i'm excited about is the ability to go help customers with service now. Yes, but what I'm really excited about is they go help our chosen vendors like you guys, our partner vendor partners to go Help You guys tell that story, evangelize that story, then bring it full circle up to implementation and managing it. Uh, So when you hit that hot button a minute ago for me, I was like, Yeah, there you go, and it it's everywhere. Conference last week,

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Shawn Bass: and any time the word service now came up, and I started asking about how we're gonna integrate. I gel ums into your service now, world. The answer was, I don't know, but I want to let's get it done. Yeah, Well, and for us to you know, service now is A is a great step, and it drives efficiencies I talked about. But at the end of the day what we really want to be able to do is put even more power in the end users hands to help them self-service and solve problems without even having to contact the help desk. So we've done that in two different ways. One we've um. We've started provide more self service tools,

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Shawn Bass: the end user inside of workspace. One intelligent hub, or we can notify what things that have happened in their experience and let them do self-service uh preparers that that we can let them, you know, receive a prompt And then, say, Oh, yeah, I want to reinstall that application or the case. Maybe the other thing that we've done is we've done a lot of work on data science. We talked about this. That explorer in San Francisco a couple of weeks ago, where um we're using analytics to people to identify when problems are happening with end user applications and also look across all

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Shawn Bass: other customers data in a very anonymous, aggregated way to say when other users had this problem with crashing applications. Let's say it's a productivity. App It started crashing.

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Shawn Bass: What did they do to fix the problem of? What could we recommend to this customer that they could do to solve that problem? Maybe it's a operating system patch that has to be deployed. Maybe it's a software update for that application version that they're running. That could be, you know, six, twelve, eighteen months old at this point, you know, using that data science to be able to correlate uh similar problems with other customers have had and made a recommendation to an Admin. To say in over. To fix this, follow these steps and then build a workflow. They can push a button and remediate the problem across thousands of them

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Andy Whiteside: at a time, you know.

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Andy Whiteside: Yeah, I've got one more to ask, and then we'll get into the topic for today, and I've got a good segue into that uh you mentioned the cloud volumes, and at volumes a while ago several presentations recently around, I don't disrupt where V, and where is, we're still talking workspaces. We're still talking like what you and I are talking about here. But most of that conversation was the ability to make applications work anywhere, including other other technology, other workspace technologies with Um, What's What's your thoughts on what you guys are doing over there

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Shawn Bass: to extend at volumes to work in all sorts of different uh environments. You know we're we're very happy that we've got at volume support up in a horizon cloud on azure. Uh? And and what's really special and unique about that is, we actually had to change the way the app volumes works. Um, because in the in the be sphere world. We can do a direct attach of a of a You know um of a a disk volume that's an app volume directly via the Hypervisor, because all of that is native to our technologies. Uh, in the case of azure we don't run these spare. We

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Shawn Bass: we're running on, you know, hyperv because azure is based on hyperv, and so we don't have the same level of access to the hypervisor directly attached to disk. In the same way. Um, what we're able to do with, uh with azure is leverage some package conversion capabilities to be able to convert the packages to a to a vhdx format uh and be able to use an ingust mounting options that we can attach the same that volumes that you create in a V sphere horizon on environment. You can output those uh using our packaging tools and leverage them on our

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Shawn Bass: horizon cloud on azure environment as well. Um! And that's something we've been doing for a while Now that's not brand new, but something that we've been doing with app volumes very recently, and we talked about this explorer. That's super exciting is a new feature that we call horizon published apps on Demand, and for for an old school uh Rdsh Terminal Services. Guy like yourself, what's really cool about this published apps on demand is, we are doing a attachment of an app. Volumes app stack on demand onto a terminal server,

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Shawn Bass: but that's not the super cool part about it. The super cool part about it is that we're also doing that in a dynamic elastic farm, because in a traditional terminals or environment you got to spend a lot of time articulating which applications exist in which server silos and a lot of cases you do that based on Oh, this app isn't compatible with that component. So we've got to segment these things out. But the reality is like eighty. Ninety percent of the apps that end Users use are compatible and mixed both with one another.

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Shawn Bass: So why designate all these different published app farms and silos? So what we don't publish that some demand is, you can create a single elastic farm that contains all of the compatible apps, and you, Don't, have to bother with entitlements to say, Oh, this app is on that server or silo um as a user signs in and needs a published application. We'll automatically publish it from the app volumes environment into that elastic farm, and when the next and third and fourth and fifth users need that same

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Shawn Bass: application, it's already attached to that set of servers. So there's subsequent launches are instantaneous because the app is already been presented to the terminal server environment. So really cool way of simplifying larger scale. Rdst: environments. Now you're still gonna need isolated silos, as I mentioned, for those that do, in fact, can conflict you. You have conflicting versions of Job, or conflicting versions of, or or something like that. But, generally speaking, like I said, eighty ninety percent of the apps out there are compatible with one another.

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Shawn Bass: So this elastic farm greatly simplifies the administrative overhead of having to serve published apps to tens of thousands of users. You can now do it in a much more dynamic way. I can't help myself. But the the visual it came to my mind is the idea. Instead, it'd be like crispy cream donuts instead of just making a whole bunch of doughnuts for whatever you expect for the day you're able to just at any point in time. Just hit the button and start making doughnuts. Let's say a buffet is come in from a field trip or something. All of a sudden. You just make a bunch of hot and fresh donuts, and you've got happy

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Shawn Bass: customers, and you right size your business, you know, by the hour by the minute. Yeah, the key thing for us is not only the the just in time delivery, because that's something that apple has done for quite some time now. But it's also like, How do we lessen the administrative burden of having to manage that mapping to all the different terminal servers. And that's why we think this published apps on demand is greatly going to simplify not only the the end user experience and getting the app on demand, but also not have to have the administrator spend the whole bunch of time publishing application updates into the farm

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Shawn Bass: through the Rdsh Administration interface. They can update their published applications in the app lines Environment, when they have to read an application without having to then go back and adjust all the published instances in the you know, twenty different farm styles you might have.

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Andy Whiteside: Okay, So here's the question that's going to get us to the ultimate topic for today.

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Andy Whiteside: How much do you appreciate the fact that you have in your back pocket as needed the world's most capable hypervisor, so that when you need to do like the at volumes piece, where you're attaching kind of the native way, the way it was originally built, or when you need to go into private data center, semi, private data center, a public cloud all at the same time. And you need a ubiquitous layer. How much. How How powerful is that today?

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Shawn Bass: It's It's powerful. I I wouldn't say that you know end-user computing necessarily has um ever done something that is in any way like restricted or limited on on the hypervisor side. I mean, there's certain features that we have taken advantage of, like our instant phone technology. That was a A. V sphere innovation that we we took advantage of in in and user compute land. But the reality is, we recognize that customers are going to have all sorts of different requirements on

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Shawn Bass: where they want to run their applications, and in some cases those are going to be dictated by uh application modernization decisions that they're gonna make. So let's say they decide to put some new application up in azure up in Aws or up in Gcp. You know we're gonna have to be able to support customers running their applications anywhere. They happen to be based on the decisions they've made about their infrastructure. But to your point before you know where we can provide an inherent advantage. And running on top of our own platform,

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Shawn Bass: we certainly take advantage of that instant. Phones is a great example of that. But also, you know, customers who have wanted to simplify the stack of a Vdi environment having having things like V. Sand available to us for hyper converge. Infrastructure is is a great way of calling out cost and complexity in A in a Vdi stack. So yeah, we definitely take advantage of those things where we can, but we also recognize we've got to be able to run everywhere. That customer wants to run their apps, so we have to support all the native native hyper scalars as well.

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Andy Whiteside: Yeah. So if we go back uh ten years ago, and you and I are having a conversation we would have said, Hey, the uh, the people who own the hypervisors are going to have a leg up on this desktop and that virtualization story, and if you ask the question, probably uh, I don't know. Two years ago I would say, Well, yeah, they they did, and they probably still will. But those guys that on the hyper scalars they're the ones that are gonna have the leg up into the future. And so what we're talking about today is your recent announcement. I'll give you the blog article title on September twenty ninth

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Andy Whiteside: Uh. Expanding the Vmware and Aws collaboration with Vmware Horizon and Amazon Workspace core. So help translate, uh, you know the Uc. Story of being we're on top of your hypervisor to the Uc. Story, natively integrated with the other hyper scalars to the Aws in this case. Yeah. So um, it's. It's actually really an interesting story, because, you know, Vmware and and Amazon have had a had a significant partnership going back,

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Shawn Bass: you know, five plus years. On the on the the is side. We're on the cloud side as it pertains to. You know. Vmware Cloud on in the Us. That's that's no secret. We've been talking about that for many years, and we've enjoyed a great partnership with Amazon. Um for hybrid Cloud and and multi cloud. What what we Haven't really done uh over the last many years is really done. Any collaboration whatsoever with the end user computing division at Amazon. Um, And that's not necessarily, you know,

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Shawn Bass: because we're we're harsh competitors or anything like that. We just hadn't really thought about a collaboration effort with those guys, And we did start an effort. Um dating back, probably about six to nine, maybe twelve months ago, where we started exploring, what potential opportunities there could be for a collaboration between our two Euc businesses. Now this is interesting, because at the end of the day we're both in the end user compute space. So we both are sort of competing

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Shawn Bass: for the same customers or the same dollars. But uh, it kind of reminds me of a statement I made going back. Probably I don't know. Three to four years ago, when Vmware announced support for the Citrix Stack on Vmware Cloud, and I remember you know there are a lot of customers and partners and analysts, and and even some of my fellow employees that that reached out after we made that announcement, because they're like, Are you nuts like you're enabling the competitor on your cloud platform. And why would you do that?

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Shawn Bass: That sounds crazy, And at the end of the day. My answer to all those people, and it still remains. This way is our job is to service our customers to help them achieve their goals of modernizing their infrastructure. Getting to public cloud, whatever the case may be, and what I never want to do is go to a customer and say, Hey, customer, I know your number. One goal is to get into the cloud, and you've got this Citrix competitive solution that you want to move to the cloud. Um, but we're just going to tell you. Hey, You're on your own figure out your own path. If we have a way of helping that customer,

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Shawn Bass: we're getting to the cloud faster, we should light up and enable that use case. And so back. A couple of years ago I came out with the statement that we were going to be supporting Citrix that happens in desktop on V, and more cloud in the Us. And that sounded a little bit contrarian that we would enable and support and help a competitor solution. But, as I said, at the end of the day, we are here to serve our customers and meet them where they are and solve the business problems they have today, and maybe they're not going to use the Vm. Where you see solutions staff today.

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Shawn Bass: Maybe we're just gonna build some good will. And who knows? Maybe in the future they might be considering an alternative to Citrix, and they remember that we help them be successful on their cloud migration, and maybe they'll give us a shot. Their business then. So I've always use it unit as playing a long game, and and, you know, helping customers solve problems and not focusing so much on the the short term revenue that we're trying to achieve. Now to to go back to the the comments for statements about uh Vm. Where you see an Amazon Euc, and this offering for

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Shawn Bass: workspaces core. Um! This was sort of in the same vein of that supporting Citrix on Bmc. It's about meeting customers where they are, and solving a business problem that they have. So we've got lots of happy customers that run horizon eight on premises today. Some of them have plans. They want to be able to get out into the public cloud as quickly as possible, and, as you know, refactoring a Vdi environment for desktop as a services, a lot of work. I mean. You gotta kind of re engineer, how you do image management and

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Shawn Bass: delivery and user profiles, and all the things that go into a Vdi decision and goes into a um a desktop as a service decision, and the other complexity we see for customers is they're increasingly finding themselves in some form of a hybrid or multi cloud challenge where they know they're gonna have some apps and desktops that are going to run on prem, and it's not because those things couldn't go to the cloud at some point in time, but we all know that,

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Shawn Bass: you know, uh data, locality and latency plays a big part in where you choose to run a workload. So there are some applications that they just can't shift to public cloud until the back end of those applications themselves are either rewritten or ported to the public cloud. So customers are going to be in this sort of hybrid dilemma, for for in some cases many, many years to come. Now, what we've done with Amazon is to say, Hey, if a customer wants to leverage work

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Shawn Bass: spaces Um! But they use Verizon on prem today. Can we give them an easy button to let them put some number of those desktops up into Amazon. If those applications that they're using the infrastructure is already in a Us. Therefore the data locality is solved, or maybe it's a use case or subset of used cases that Don't have a data gravity latency problem with the on prem environment, and there's lots of things that are great about it.

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Shawn Bass: The Us. As a whole and more specifically workspaces. Um. They've got lots of points of presence all over the globe that can service customers. They've got great availability and reliability. Um! They have the advantage of being able to do. Pay as you go where you can pay for a users desktop on an hourly basis. There's a lot of great advantages to it, but Horizon also has some really amazing advantages ourselves. We've got an amazing display protocol in blast. That is one of the best in the market. Um! And there are customers that say,

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Shawn Bass: I have certain things I love about horizon. I'd love them into aws and and workspaces core, and that's kind of what got us to this decision of Can we make an easy button that lets a horizon. A customer extend the benefits of the horizon platform into aws in a very easy and seamless way, and that's kind of what became the the synthesis of this whole idea of? Can we give customers an easy way to get Horizon eight into the public cloud,

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Shawn Bass: and that is through this integration with workspaces core, which Amazon announced that their Euc Day event in September, and we talked about this at explore and effectively. What this lets us do is take the existing cloud Pod architecture of Horizon eight, and have one pop that runs on premises or or multiple pods of the customer. Environment is is large enough for complex enough, and then you can have another pod up in the Aws workspaces, environment where you would be able to

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Shawn Bass: run select users full time in uh Amazon workspaces for, or you'd have the ability to move desktops back and forth, so you could move a subset of users up into workspaces. And if you end up finding out in that migration effort that some of those desktops uh are not performing well due to dating gravity issues. You can change our broker to wrap those users right back to on Prem, and have that very easy, flexible choice to say, Put them here. No, put them back on prime. Try this group of users, put them in the cloud.

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Andy Whiteside: We'll put them back on friends. So it really gives customers a lot of flexibility to balance um. You know their application, data, gravity needs and their cost needs. Um of trying to get those desktops up in the public cloud. You. You pretty much covered it without me asking any of the questions you did hit a couple of times on easily. Do it. This the ability to run desktop or app hosting workloads in aws. I as isn't new. It did it. It was just hard

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Shawn Bass: easy just to use their apis and what they provide as a Uc solution and just plug it right in, right? Yeah. And and some of the great things that we get out of there is, you know uh Amazon is invested a lot in workspaces, for in terms of the management structure, or how you deliver a desktop operating system to users. Um, and we're going to be able to take advantage of a lot of that within our joint, offering um, and there we're also able to take all the good things that horizon has, like the blast portable, like all of our rich

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Shawn Bass: multimedia offloading, and all those capabilities that are some things that Amazon has some of their own capabilities in their offering, and in some cases we've got richer uh capabilities in our offering, so you can really get the best of both worlds. Um a a pay as you go desktop as a service offering on workspaces. But all the richness of enterprise, management, and the the richness of the blast portable and all their own experience uh capabilities we've built, and you can use both of them together in a very easy uh simplistic way. So

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Shawn Bass: we think it's a win-win for customers that are, you know, invested in in Amazon, and invested in vmware and want to find a way to deal with the light up desktops in the public cloud, and in the easy way to do it without, as I said, having to kind of re-engineer the way that you uh compose your images and compose your app delivery and all that type of stuff.

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Andy Whiteside: No.

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Andy Whiteside: So you made a You made the comment earlier about meeting the customer where the need is. And one of the things you were talking about is their ability to dive dive into on-prem still on-premise. Uh, maybe dive into a Z integral uh data center where we're maybe hosting workloads for them. And in this case, diving into Amazon uh easily, without having to do all the the heavy uplift, and the reality of Amazon aws is that you know that's where it all started in terms of public cloud. There's a lot of companies that got stuff in there that's not coming out

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Andy Whiteside: any time.

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Shawn Bass: Yeah, I think that's a great point, and and we also recognize that you know every hyper scalar is trying to figure out their hybrid cloud story. Uh, but what a lot of them are really focused on from a higher cloud point of view is really that that I, as you know, infrastructure Uh, you know, Data Center centric roles. A lot of them Haven't really focused on how they're solving the end user compute hybrid needs, And that's a that's a unique area that I think we we actually have a lot of capability to offer uh a us in this case where

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Shawn Bass: Amazon workspaces doesn't have an offering that lets them run in on premises environments today. Um! So this is a great win for them to be able to tell customers. Hey? If you've got hybrid requirements, we've got a great partner here with Vm. Where they can help you support hybrid on prem use cases at the same time. Public cloud used cases with workspaces and um, you know workspaces for offers us a lot of advantage in terms of ease, of use of provisioning desktop with very little upfront cost for the customers. So we think it's a win win for both companies.

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Andy Whiteside: Yeah, for sure.

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Andy Whiteside: Yeah, it kind of solves some of these challenges, and, like you, were pointing out a minute ago. Um!

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Andy Whiteside: Whether it's aws, whether it's azure in the beginning, whether it's Gcp. Coming after that in use your compute workload the desktop, or published apps, or both simultaneously. There's a much larger, addressable space there with high consumption. Needs, if I put one hundred servers in Aws Chubs along all day, you know. Six point three gigs of memory versus having to put end users in there with desktops with, you know, twelve to sixteen gigs of memory, not because they use it all time, but because they might have that burst through

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Shawn Bass: the day, and it better be there.

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Shawn Bass: Yeah, it's one of the great reasons to use Cloud, in the first place, is that elasticity? Um, the the complexity, I think, for for desktops is unless you're able to enforce usage patterns and force people to log out, and that kind of stuff. A lot of desktops and organizations are still run twenty, four, seven. They do patching and maintenance in the background that can sometimes get costly if you're not managing your power, management, life cycles to turn those things down when people aren't using them. And that's a lot of the reason why. You know, we think

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Shawn Bass: innovations like app volumes uh particularly that published apps on demand I talked about. We can grow and shrink the terminal Services farm very easily uh gives us a lot of capability to help help us manage that power envelope of turning things down or not use and turning them up when you do need them.

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Shawn Bass: No, no, love it. Well, hey, Shawn. I think we've covered it. I really do. And I I think you've practiced that we've uh we've done this so many years uh in different circles. So it's uh It's an exciting time. But uh, you know lots of cool innovation still to come. So uh we'll. We'll be talking about more of this at the end works for Barcelona, and just a couple of weeks, and we've got some surprise new announcements there as well,

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Andy Whiteside: you know. Well, I've got you. I can't help but ask, because I know this is where I first started interacting with you. Um, the Protocol Wars

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Andy Whiteside: blast, cx protocol. Uh, let me ask you. I mean that world has kind of been solved. People have figured out how to how to do stuff within the protocol and offload when needed. That's that plus the fact that we're not dealing with fifteen K. Dial up modems. You take those two things together, and that's where that's where. At the other day you guys have something that others want. Right?

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Shawn Bass: Yeah, I I won't say that the cortical words are a hundred over, and the only reason why I say, that is the user requirements. Keep changing over time, you know. If you look back in the early days of the Ica Protocol back when I got started with citrix. And uh God! What was it? One thousand nine hundred and ninety?

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Shawn Bass: It's probably nineteen, ninety-six I think, when I first exposed to uh to citrix. Um

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Shawn Bass: uh, back in those days to your point, you know it was dial up modems at the salad links, and all those kind of things, and For the most part we were redirecting wind forms applications that were two d apps, you know. There's no media. There's not a lot of graphics. There was no video um and things have certainly evolved over the course of the last. You know twenty, twenty-five years where there's a much richer meeting experience that people are working with now. The protocols have kept pace with that um, and blast is a great example of that. We even

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Shawn Bass: many, many years of portable optimization and blast, and we're able to handle easily. Now, things like four K. Eight k monitors and different forms of media. But I don't want to say the job is done because user. Experience continues to evolve. You know, we've got things like Ar and Vr. Now that are going to bring a whole new set of immersive experiences, and we're going to need to keep investing in the protocols to be able to handle those new uh circumstances. And so I won't say

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Shawn Bass: our school boards are over. I will say that to date for a modern workforce, the remoting protocols by many of the vendors are quote unquote good enough to get the job done for most of most of the customers needs. There are still differences between the protocols, some that are better than others. I think We've got one of the best, but I wouldn't say we can. We can lay down now, because there's a whole new set of requirements that are coming in the next couple of years that are going to continue to drive the evolution of the display program

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at all.

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Andy Whiteside: Yeah, without a doubt. And one of the things about the uh display. But I I mentioned, you know, a fifteen K. Now you've got, you know, gig, fiber bidirectional. But the end user may not always be sitting in their home office with gig fiber, with good bandwidth and and low latency any more time where the end-user is going to end up, and we can't tell them. We just have to react to where they are.

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Shawn Bass: Mobile Network Connectivity is getting so much better these days than it was, you know, even ten years ago, when we were griping about mobile user experience over three G and four G protocols, I mean the the latency you get now on a five G network is so much lower than it used to be on three G. Um, and the network capacity to your point. You know. Gigabit style capacity. We're getting on uh on five g networks now. So I I think that's a diminishing problem that we're not gonna really have a huge issue.

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Shawn Bass: We still do see in some parts of the world that fixed office connectivity is sometimes not great, and I wouldn't say that's necessarily the speed. That's a huge problem. What we often see in people's home environments is um, you know, poor poorly configured wireless networking that doesn't have the right amount of coverage for the house. Um, you know a lot of people don't have uh when optimization in their house they don't have any portable prioritization. So someone starts streaming four K movies or someone starts playing games

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Shawn Bass: on an Xbox or whatever. And next thing you know, the corporate connectivity has been disrupted. You know, Vmware makes when optimization technologies that can help for those kind of things. But not every customer buys one optimization. So I think, in the in the home networks there are still some challenges that organizations sometimes have. But I think that's a declining problem as time goes on.

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Andy Whiteside: Yeah, for sure,

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Andy Whiteside: you got the you got the connectivity. They had a question for you. I I don't I haven't studied this but fiveg networks.

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Shawn Bass: Are we really seeing five G. At this point? Are we seeing the beginning of five. G. It Sometimes your phone says it's five G. I think. In the in the Major Metro cities we're seeing pretty good five G. Coverage and the smaller cities and along the rural routes. It's definitely not anywhere near Five G. And most of those places. But again, that carrier evolution keeps improving, and it will get better and better as time goes on.

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Andy Whiteside: Yeah. So what i'm saying is, I don't believe my phone sometimes when it goes fiveg in certain cities is amazing, and fiveg I got five bars of five G somewhere, sometime like It's it's barely. I'm on my l to back. I I always say I have found fiveg congestion to be far worse than Ltb. Congestion, particularly if you're in a high density location. You go to like a a ballpark to watch a game, and you're trying to use fiveg where there's, you know, fifty or one hundred thousand people.

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Shawn Bass: You actually might get better performance forcing your phone to for G, because there's less congestion for the the bandwidth. Um. But but I do think those are stimulating circumstances when you've got so many people in one place. It's not the norm for what you have at your house.

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Andy Whiteside: Yeah, I agree, and maybe that's why I shouldn't break out my phone and do um do a virtual desktop demo. I'll. I'll show you tomorrow when we're in the office room.

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Shawn Bass: Yeah, exactly. Well, again, those those I think, are problems that that continue to get more and more diminished as time goes on, and networks get better and and more uh more. Fiveg more. True, five G is being lit up, I mean I've been pretty impressed with the with the speed I've had times before where I've been in corporate networks, and I'm trying to do something, and I flip the device i'm using onto my uh five G for my for my mobile provider, and it's blazing fast compared to the corporate network. So

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Andy Whiteside: Mobile is definitely the way to go there. Can you imagine the kids ten years from now complaining about? I don't know ten G. And crazy bandwidth. I I don't know, anyway, Sean. Thanks for joining Thanks for going down my little uh side here on the protocol stuff.

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Andy Whiteside: It still matters. But I love what you guys are doing with aws uh we're doing a lot with aws love the service Now, conversation. Um! It's it's It's still an exciting space. Here's one for you. This comes up uh recently a lot with me.

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Andy Whiteside: How many people are as excited about what we're doing right into your compute. Do you know that are in their twenties?

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Shawn Bass: So it's definitely something that I think there's a lot of people in your compute land that have been doing this for a while. Now I would say, what's um, What's compelling and interesting for me is how many customers we're seeing now that the employee experience is now actually a conversation that not only the Eu C. It folks are talking about, but, like the Hr team, is starting to talk about. That's now reaching a very compelling situation. Now, there's no doubt there's been an explosion of technology with

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Shawn Bass: Saas applications and all those types of things that are dramatically changing. What you see means. Um, but you know you're You're probably correct that the younger generation maybe doesn't care as much about these things, but they also Haven't lived through some of the struggles uh that some of the older generation has lived through. Um! So the idea of like waiting two or three weeks to get your corporate laptop is just not something that a uh a Gen. Z uh employment candidate would even think was fathomable. Um, but that's that's a good thing I mean. I I think

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Shawn Bass: the younger generation is forcing some of the norms that were done in the past, and saying this just doesn't make any sense, so I can go grab a laptop from anywhere and start working with my cloud applications. I don't need to deal with this three week delay to get a laptop, I think what I'm getting at is the used case is more applicable to than ever, especially when you start factoring the pandemic madness.

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Andy Whiteside: I don't. I just don't know who's gonna work on this stuff like I I talked to young kids a day, and they, you know they just graduated with a computer science degree from a really High End school, and they don't know what A. Tcp. Ip address is. Well, I think there's there's good and bad in that there's There's the obvious bad that you're painting like that. They They maybe don't have knowledge of certain areas I would counter and say, in some cases it's good. They don't have knowledge of some of the things that us that they've been around this this environment for a longer time, because

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Shawn Bass: some of the things like some of the biggest problems we have with transforming end user experience and organizations is is legacy mindset in thinking about how to approach problems. So the good part about the younger generation is, they just know that certain things about end user experience should not be compromised. And again, a lot of these folks grew up in an area where are in an era where they've only used cloud applications they've never used, you know, on premises physically installed.

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Shawn Bass: I mean My own two daughters are twenty, one and twenty two. Right now. Their concept of an email client is the web browser.

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Shawn Bass: And so that's not a bad thing that actually pushes us all forward to kind of rethink what constitutes an end user experience. Now, i'm not going to go so far as to say, like everything's a network computer, and everything is going to be done through the browser. I don't think we're quite there yet. But I do think, leaving aside some of the legacy, thinking that we've lived through the last couple of decades and thinking about doing things in a new way isn't necessarily a bad thing. But I agree with you. We need to get more of the younger generation in

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Shawn Bass: to end-user compute, to recognize the importance of them having a role in leading where this technology is headed, because in some cases, you know, it's hard for us to to shake some of that that that mind that we have from before,

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Andy Whiteside: I mean, for the most part, it's gonna be what it's gonna be. We have to nurture and embrace around it. For example, digital workspaces, which is big part of what you guys are doing on Euc side, and whether it means managing that endpoint device of the future and providing the access to that legacy X. Eighty six application, or that Sas application and running, no matter where it is. I mean, that's that's what's so exciting about the digital workspace part of the digital transformation. The The good news is this continues to evolve, and every time something evolves and a new capability comes forward, it's it's that much more

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Shawn Bass: more interesting things for all of us to work on. And you know there's been no shortage of new surprises and end user for cute land since I've been involved in, and that's why I still love this space, and I still wake up every day. Excited to do what I do. I agree. I agree. Wake up every day, excited to go tackle the end, user compute, challenge.

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Andy Whiteside: Um. A lot of people not wired that way, Sean. Thanks for the time. Pleasure. Thanks for hosting me uh next blog. Uh, let us know we'll do it again. I'd like to, maybe get you or something else on, and talk about that service now. Integration we happy to It's actually built by some members of my team, so uh certainly could love to pull some folks in and and talk to that, sir. Alright, Appreciate it. Thank you much. Thanks, Eddie. Take care.