On the Horizon: What Is VMware Horizon? Part 2

VMware Horizon is a virtualization software product for delivering desktops and apps on Windows, Linux, and MacOS systems. It is especially relevant today because so many of us are working remotely. Whether you’re a system administrator or a pizza deliverer, you need easy access to the apps and desktops that help you do your job. And you need that access to be secure.

Host: Andy Whiteside
Co-host: Philip Sellers

Transcript

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Andy Whiteside: Hello, everyone! Welcome to episode 29 of on the horizon. I'm your host, Andy White side this week we're covering part 2 of what is V, and we're horizon, and what is workspace one? But still, in this case, what is v. One horizon? Phillip Sellers is on Philip. You

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Andy Whiteside: You've been in integr? Is it? Is it a month, or is it a year? I can't, I'm coming up on 90 days, so almost 3 months now.

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Andy Whiteside: So your background is interesting to me. Obviously we go way back. You've always been on the Vmware infrastructure side of the house, but you've always been around the citrix environments, and I know over here you're really holding the holding the rains around Vmware. Everything, including in user compute along with was one.

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Andy Whiteside: Tell me what: Tell me what you? How are you feeling about the horizon workspace? One

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Andy Whiteside: world coming from a shop that typically use Citrix and Vm. Where? What have you learned?

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Philip Sellers: Well you know. What I've learned is that there is a lot of feature parity, and really there's there's nothing we were doing in Citrix that we can't do inside of horizon in workspace one. And, in fact.

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Philip Sellers: there's some things that are really nice about workspace, one from an Mdm perspective, and it goes much further than

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Philip Sellers: what we have kind of been the other toolbox. So that

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Philip Sellers: that's been nice to see. Yeah, I mean it's it's really got feature to parity.

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Andy Whiteside: you know, for whatever reason some of the other players citrix. In this case they kind of deemphasize that for a while. I think they're going to try to bring it back. But I mean, we had a conversation this morning around, you know, in user, compute within the integral. And somebody asked, okay, when are we going to start doing? Mdm: maybe even Mam. So Mobile device management, Mdm: Mobile application management, M. A. M. DM. Or ma'am.

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Andy Whiteside: You know you kind of have to have that mobile device piece, whether it's a laptop, a tablet, or a phone these days, especially in this hybrid world. Don't you?

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Philip Sellers: Yeah, Absolutely. I mean a, and it it's true for the mobile device, and I think that that we talk a lot about your phones and tablets and things like that. But

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Philip Sellers: with the recent changes to modern management, even inside of the windows desktop platform, I think there's a huge opportunity to to kind of move forward in that

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Philip Sellers: modern management and and and increase your security and make things easier for your your end. User I know

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Philip Sellers: you know we're we're doing things that way here inside of. We recently

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Philip Sellers: change the way that we on board, and the way that we secure and push out applications in house, and so, being able to do that through modern methods is a a much easier way for your users to adopt new computers technology for you to push out security. And software so.

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Philip Sellers: Yeah, it's a little rethink, but certainly there's some benefits and simplification that could be had in your your environment.

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Andy Whiteside: Yeah.

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Andy Whiteside: So

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Andy Whiteside: this is part 2 part one. We covered the features of the product as it relates to the administrator. Now let's talk about those all important end users.

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Andy Whiteside: and the first first top. Here is streamline access.

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Andy Whiteside: especially these days, when you're working from anywhere at any point in time. And who knows? We may all be working from home again full time tomorrow like we didn't know last time it was going to happen overnight. And then it happened.

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Andy Whiteside: What streamline access? Tell me what we're trying to cover here.

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Philip Sellers: Well, it it's it's really around your identity management, I mean. So so, stepping back from the streamline access, I mean it's around. Who are you? What do you have access to

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Philip Sellers: and

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Philip Sellers: zoom? Here's got a really strong story here with workspace, one access which is a part of horizon delivery, and it's part of workspace one you am, but it's really that concept of you know. Who are you? What what can you get into and giving you sort of a

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Philip Sellers: consumer grade

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Philip Sellers: app store where you can click on icons, and you can

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Philip Sellers: go right to work. I mean it. It No extra authentication, no extra slow down you get right to work.

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Philip Sellers: And that's really the story here with the streamline access. So

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Philip Sellers: they They've got great things where they can hook up with third parties like Octa and off 0 as your AD

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Philip Sellers: a a, and even your own prem directory, using workspace one access and then and grant access out to all of the different applications, horizon included. So it's kind of a a bit of a bigger story. But here, specifically for horizon, it's definitely giving you that

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Philip Sellers: Citrix workspace is sort of access to your applications.

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Andy Whiteside: Well, I think I I love the way you said that it's a bigger story, and

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Andy Whiteside: you know that zoom where as a company has a as I forget last time I looked it it it was impressive. It was also daunting. All the same time, the amount of technologies they can bring to market. But you don't have to adopt them all. You just have someone like us help you figure out. Okay, these are the things you're trying to solve. And look, you have a license, or you can get a license that gets these pieces of the piece puzzle for you.

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Andy Whiteside: Let's plug these in, and then we'll keep our eye on where others might fit along the way, and that access model through the workspace one side of things. To get to horizon or other things is certainly extremely powerful. You didn't have to use verizon.

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Andy Whiteside: but horizon you'll get as part of the kind of part of the solution.

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Andy Whiteside: but bigger store. I I think that's the best way to

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Philip Sellers: well, and and you hit the mail in the head, because Vmware is always been a a very partner centric company with all their other Isvs. You know they they work well with others. They play well in the sandbox with others. And you know this is another example of that where you don't have to adopt all vmware across end to end.

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Philip Sellers: you can choose it where it makes sense for your particular use cases where I know there's other vendors out in the market that they try to lock you in, and really only have compatibility with their own stack, and it it's not part of their story. They they have a lot of choice. They they still allow the customer to choose

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Philip Sellers: where it makes sense within their environment.

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Yeah.

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Andy Whiteside: So the next part of the user experience is the title. This sex is easy access from any device. I think it might tie back into what we're just talking about. But now, on the device side, what? What's the user benefit of using

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Andy Whiteside: lots of different devices, if you so choose.

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Philip Sellers: Well, I mean it really is meeting your customer, your user where they are. And you know, when

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Philip Sellers: when Ipads Ios first came out. You know they were first

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Philip Sellers: drop things like Flash and Java from from the experience. So

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Philip Sellers: you know, I I wanna say, Horizon was the first time I ever saw, and I think it started as a fling. I don't even think it was part of the main product at the time.

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Philip Sellers: but they had the ability to display all of your windows applications in an HTML browser. And so you know it. It was a a really nifty way, so that you could get to it from any mobile device. All you needed was a browser.

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Philip Sellers: and it opened up compatibility across any operating system that you could think of, you know. Here in the article they talk about windows. Mac OS, Linux Ios chromebook android.

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Philip Sellers: Yeah, that's that's still a a thing. I mean, you you talked about the education space. There's really strong chromebook adoption there, you know. Everybody's got an android, or an Ios device, you know.

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Philip Sellers: unless they like my mom, who just recently got an Ios device from her flip the phone. So you know I i'm sure there's a few out there, but

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Philip Sellers: they they're not gonna be at application users on their flip phone, but we will.

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Philip Sellers: We will be able to support everybody else using horizon and and you know.

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Philip Sellers: just like Citrix and Microsoft. They they've got their own flavor of

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Philip Sellers: their protocol optimized. So the PC. Over IP

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Philip Sellers: protocol is really great packaged into the horizon client. So if you do download the software on to any one of these operating systems, you'll have that full, optimized

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Philip Sellers: sort of experience. But you've also got the in browser experience with which opens compatibility to these devices. They're a little more locked down like home books.

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right?

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Andy Whiteside: I okay. Just a quick test. We did it on a podcast over the day. How many operating systems do you have within reach of you right now?

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Philip Sellers: Museum of sorts going on. So I've got a bunch of different versions of Mac OS going back to the eighties.

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Philip Sellers: And then there's probably I i'm gonna guess if I had to say offhand, probably 25 or 30 operating systems here in this office today.

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Philip Sellers: But you know not. Everybody's gonna be like me and have a home lab with, you know, 4 or 5 different operating systems sitting in it. But I mean

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Philip Sellers: it is common, for you know, someone to have a Mac at home and have a windows for work and

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Philip Sellers: Ios, and they might have a you know.

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Philip Sellers: chrome based TV, or you know, Amazon based TV. So

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you we start talking about those IoT devices and stuff, too. And it

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Andy Whiteside: Yeah, yeah, for sure and more coming every day.

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Andy Whiteside: All right. So that takes us kind of lines this up perfectly for this next topic which is multi OS support for deployment of virtual desktops and apps.

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Andy Whiteside: You know that when you start talking about companies that have got a legacy of application portfolio.

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Andy Whiteside: They need to have flexibility in where those things run, and if everybody's got a windows 11. But you got some half to hold you back.

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Andy Whiteside: You'd have an option.

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Philip Sellers: Yeah, yeah, I mean, this is clearly one of the the target used cases that I think we see a lot with, you know, at virtualization. So whether that's delivery from a horizon farm.

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Philip Sellers: Citrix Farm, some other app layering type technology, I mean, that's

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Philip Sellers: there. There's multiple different ways that we can attack this and and just, you know, at Vmware. You know

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Philip Sellers: this

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Philip Sellers: This is a huge part of what our customers have to maintain. I mean not. Everything is

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Philip Sellers: actually most things aren't ready for that modern application that I don't know of a lot of package software that runs in containers today.

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Philip Sellers: Most of it still client, server.

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Philip Sellers: and particularly true in in the Smb and the Mid market Space client server, still the standard. So

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Philip Sellers: how do you deploy that to an incompatible device. You you need something like this that that abstracts it away.

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Philip Sellers: I I know, in my last shop this was a a huge thing, because we acquired so many different firms.

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Philip Sellers: You know you inherit

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Philip Sellers: what they were doing as as a firm, and if

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Philip Sellers: they decide to stop

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Philip Sellers: paying support on a particular version of software. Well, that's where you've got to support it for the next, you know 7, 10 years. Whatever

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Philip Sellers: Whatever your business partners decide, they need to keep the legacy data around.

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Philip Sellers: So this is a huge enabler, you know it. It also

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Philip Sellers: should be pointed out that you know Horizon supports both windows and Linux resources. So

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Philip Sellers: some of your use cases, for

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Philip Sellers: you know

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Philip Sellers: in-house applications that you don't necessarily want to get outside of the firewall. You can deliver those as a published browser. You can deliver them as a published app, you know, having Linux can

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Philip Sellers: reduce your overall licensing costs for your operating systems.

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Philip Sellers: save the windows tax if you will.

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Philip Sellers: and and allow your users, you know, access to your secure resources, using a Linux based browser, a. And

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Philip Sellers: we we're talking to a lot of customers around that. But you know I I don't know that that's necessarily a huge concern for a lot of the people we talk with, but it's certainly nice to have

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Philip Sellers: out there on the

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Philip Sellers: compatibility.

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Philip Sellers: When you talk to industrial customers, though

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Philip Sellers: it it becomes being it, the Linux compatibility becomes a much greater value. Add, because there are some software that were just written

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Philip Sellers: for Linux based operating systems. And so I know. Coming from Telecom, we had a few of those vendors where

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Philip Sellers: you know we didn't have windows based applications. It was X windows, and so we we had sushi and things like that. We were supporting, and to be able to deliver that out as a hosted app is really nice. It it helped us deliver

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Philip Sellers: a better customer service experience because they could go in and make changes to folks cable boxes on the fly, and that was not a capability that we had. Prior.

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Andy Whiteside: I think you're touching on the next topic here which is improved user experience. Which do you know how it really works? You might think it's counterintuitive, but when you think about how it really works, and you take like a like a electronic medical records, or the app like the Xx app that you were just talking about. And you can make that something manageable and deployable from a centralized location.

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Andy Whiteside: You're taking something that wasn't possible and making it possible. That's improved user experience.

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Philip Sellers: Yeah. Well, and this this is one of the great

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Philip Sellers: use cases in health care, too, I mean. So find you know the follow me. Sort of experience, you know Clinical staff learning into an office. They've got a

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Philip Sellers: a workstation mounted into the the doctors room, and they badge end. It comes up with their session. There's no wait time, no delay.

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Philip Sellers: I I can't think of the better clinical sort of user. Experience, and and it's one of the great examples of V succeeding to help our users

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Philip Sellers: really be more efficient.

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Philip Sellers: They're they're still in their software. They're still able to make notes. There's

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there's no delay just pop right in, and

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Philip Sellers: we got an RFID badge and and go. You know it. It's

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Philip Sellers: It's really fun to see those kind of things happen, and

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Philip Sellers: you know, traditional staff who who had laptops and had to cart those around, or, you know, had a workstation in every room, and had to log in and log out because they couldn't leave patient data on the screen.

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Philip Sellers: Th: this is a game changer. It's such a time slicker for them.

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Andy Whiteside: Yeah, I'm: i'm the weird guy there to. I go to one of the major providers here in the Charlotte area.

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Andy Whiteside: I'm looking at their systems trying to figure out what they're using, and and the truth is.

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Philip Sellers: they're still using the same systems they were using in the 2,008 timeframe when I was working with them.

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Andy Whiteside: but it still does what it needed to do then, which is optimize and secure the experience all at the same time.

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Philip Sellers: Yeah. And you know it, it's they have all of the extra complaints you rules. They have all of the extra layers of of red tape that they need to meet, and it's a great way of.

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Philip Sellers: you know, securing down access to applications. And

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Philip Sellers: you know you don't have to be health care to experience those benefits. You can get that with offshoring. You know, work centers and providing your in-house applications to remote workforce.

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Philip Sellers: There, there's lots of different ways that You can benefit from that user experience. But again, I mean legacy applications.

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Philip Sellers: Oops, sir, You talking in, I guess.

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Philip Sellers: Yeah, there, there's lots of other things that can be improved just in that user? Experience. Realm. I mean.

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Philip Sellers: You know, we we talk a lot to customers who have older, incompatible operating systems, you know, adding and layering in a a thin, client type operating system and then using the power of the data center to deliver out the modern user experience is another great way of

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Philip Sellers: of gaining better user experience. I mean, particularly when we're talking about

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Philip Sellers: our more advanced graphics Type use cases, things like autocad, and even calls there for a second, because the first couple we covered right these. This is old school stream, streamline, access

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Andy Whiteside: enable any device Multi OS support for desktops, wraps depending on what the use case need is most often, because there's some legacy.

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Andy Whiteside: something hanging around your experience through through the process of getting users access to resources, they couldn't have access. Those are those are the same things, and i'm i'm sitting in my lab right now as you're talking boot for something else i'm doing.

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Andy Whiteside: and i'm watching them beat up on boot up automatically, and all for the same use cases we've talked about so far, man, that there must be the Tenthal 10,000 time. I've seen that happen, and I still get excited about watching it happen. And that's those are the things you we've covered so far. Now we're going to talk about the things that used to be the impossible use. Cases

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Andy Whiteside: have now become mainstream. Starting with the unified communications. Tell Tell us what you're seeing in that space where it's come from, and where it's at now.

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Philip Sellers: Well, you know, one support for offload has has changed the game here, so smarter endpoints whether that's you know thin clients, the client OS's things like that.

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Philip Sellers: They They've really changed the way that that this unified communication works inside of

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Philip Sellers: inside of a Vdi solution. So

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Philip Sellers: Covid forced us. I mean, you know it. It was kinda ugly at the beginning of the beginning of Covid. I mean, you know, some of these applications just did not work well inside of media, and today

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Philip Sellers: teams Zoom and webex they they all have in Ringcentral, which we we use.

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Philip Sellers: They all have the ability to to work seamlessly inside of

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Philip Sellers: inside of the the horizon is your experience.

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Philip Sellers: and it really has to do with the ability to offload some of that to the local hardware.

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Philip Sellers: but it it was a requirement. We didn't have a choice. They had to solve this because we were completely relying on it during the pandemic

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Philip Sellers: video is a particularly tough thing to deliver and stream. I know

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Philip Sellers: you and I looked at Demos years ago, of how good Citrix could do this, and it was still a little choppy. But it was amazing to see a video play and have audio have it in sync.

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you know.

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Philip Sellers: 15 years ago. Now and then it was kind of a smoke and mirrors that made it happen.

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Philip Sellers: Yeah, but today it's the true. It's the real thing. So you're getting offload to the the endpoint. So your video

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Philip Sellers: talks directly to the endpoint. Just like it was a full thick client. There's no interaction interruption. There's no lagginess. It's

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Philip Sellers: It's just good quality as as good as you would have in a native application.

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Yeah.

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Andy Whiteside: and that's the codec at work that's vmware blast protocol. That's you know. I I grew up on 15 K network, 56 K modems with 15 K connections.

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Andy Whiteside: All of that

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Andy Whiteside: has made this

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Andy Whiteside: a reality.

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Andy Whiteside: and that user experience, whether it's unified communications or graphically intensive applications. I want to come back to

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Andy Whiteside: it. It all was. It's all within scope. Now I I remember what. Listen to a Howard stern show one time, and he made this comment: we would never be able to do Multimedia, you know, live TV streaming, because it would take out too much bandwidth and literally within 3 to 4 years later we were doing it all over the place, and that's only gotten better. Those

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Andy Whiteside: evolutions have

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Andy Whiteside: come followed.

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Andy Whiteside: Our space has followed those evolutions around consumerization of technologies, and we get the benefit of that.

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Philip Sellers: Yeah, totally. Yeah. I I grew up with very slow connections. I remember my university had a single T one for

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Philip Sellers: 3,000 students. Yeah, one and a half megabit for 3,000 students. Now it's pre napster that brought it to its needs. But

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Philip Sellers: it it was one of those things where you know that's laughable today by any broadband standards. You know

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Philip Sellers: The fact that I can only get 10 megab at at my Parents' house is

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Philip Sellers: is a pain point for me today, so I. You know the fact that they're stringing fiber in front of their house makes me dance all day long, and I can't wait for them to get that hooked up.

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Philip Sellers: You know it. It's a level of Mac order of magnitude difference with where and what we have today.

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Andy Whiteside: and you know you tell my fiber. And then, who knows? I don't how far out they live. But

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Andy Whiteside: it's gonna be 5G. Antennas somewhere in their neighborhood. Maybe maybe I live way out in the middle of nowhere, which is great good for them. But let's look around all the 5G antennas getting the mounted to stuff around around us.

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Philip Sellers: Yeah, You, you definitely see it here in our urban areas. But I mean

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Philip Sellers: even your longer range, not to millimeter waves.

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Philip Sellers: 5G. Is is really usable, I mean. My wife was with her parents this past weekend, and they were having problems with their Dsl. She switched to. You know Hotspot on her phone for a much better experience. And so.

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Philip Sellers: though those kind of things are realistic, and you know, it may be the same sort of leapfrog that we had between spinning disks and solid state that happens now between.

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Philip Sellers: you know, wired broadband and wireless broadband in the next few years. So

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Philip Sellers: I I know when I've been on the road and had a call. I've had a pop open hotspot, Pop! Open a remote session and do real work, even from a plane, you know.

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Philip Sellers: was not in common for me in an operations role to to try and connect and over.

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Philip Sellers: You know, a horizon like technology and and work from a plane. Did it always work? No, but it was surprisingly efficient most of the time.

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Andy Whiteside: Well, and that's the big one that I mean. I I fly a lot almost every week.

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Andy Whiteside: That's the one

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Andy Whiteside: that I want to get better. I'll give you a great story. I don't have a great story now, but I I was meeting with someone one time, and they they were pure salesperson. I'm

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Andy Whiteside: slash, consultant sales, engineer, slash salesperson.

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Andy Whiteside: and and I said to them, hey? It's really i'm really busy. I'm flying all these places, and and I can't just can't get work done. And they say, well, I don't know why I get plenty of work done. And then I started thinking about it. Their work done is like email. So it's, you know, store and forward type stuff. Meanwhile i'm actually hands on keyboard, configuring somebody system from a plane.

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Andy Whiteside: and it's different. And that's like for me that that really rural use case, and that in the air use case. Those are the 2 that I can't wait to get solved, especially that they want in the air, because if I could just use a via If I do, I do a ton over desktop. Virtualization and Sas apps from a plane.

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Andy Whiteside: But if I can make it that native experience that's when I will have felt like other than space travel.

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Andy Whiteside: We got it covered.

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Philip Sellers: Yeah. Well, I I I will talk to you after your blue origin flight and we'll, we'll see how that one works out when you get there.

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Andy Whiteside: I'm going to in 25 years this summer.

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Andy Whiteside: I'm assuming that's another

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Andy Whiteside: use case that i'm not looking forward to.

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Philip Sellers: Yeah. And and at least the last time. It's been a few years since I was on a cruise. But their data plans were

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Philip Sellers: very expensive. I I don't want to say cost prohibitive, but they were very pricey the last time I cruised.

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Andy Whiteside: Yeah.

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Philip Sellers: but you know.

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Philip Sellers: you know, it reminds me of a a customer story, one of our customers down in the islands. You know it.

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Philip Sellers: We we take a lot of things for granted here in in the

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Philip Sellers: Continental United States, and and we have really good connectivity in in most places. But island life that isn't always the case, you know, and and

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Philip Sellers: we're working with a a college and trying to help them. And it's a a different situation. So things like the are, and other conversations that we we kind of take for granted to.

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Philip Sellers: you know, go from one region to another. Those those don't exactly make as much sense when you're on an island with a less reliable network connectivity.

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Andy Whiteside: Yeah.

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Andy Whiteside: Oh, yes, my sign just to disconnect for a few days.

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Philip Sellers: That's it. Yeah, it used to be going to.

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Philip Sellers: So Europe was my ass to disconnect for a few days. Now, now it just all works

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Andy Whiteside: well. Phillip, this is Part 2. We covered the user experience. Anything about user experience in this modern day. Dazz Vdi vmware horizon world that we haven't covered that you'd want to highlight about users.

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Philip Sellers: You know a

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Philip Sellers: it started around 2,007. But the consumerization of of

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Philip Sellers: I want to say user expectations. I was gonna say something different, but it's really around.

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Philip Sellers: User expectations change the world for us, and

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Philip Sellers: today they are our users, particularly the younger new employees coming out of college and stuff. They have a different set of expectations on

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Philip Sellers: what they're willing to do, and what they're willing to deal with. Some of our more seasoned workforce, I think, will sometimes deal with

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Philip Sellers: or or put up with some things that don't work as well.

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Philip Sellers: The thing I would say here is that this is the best of both worlds, You know You've got a really simplified work.

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Philip Sellers: Flow. It's very easy and approachable.

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Philip Sellers: and it helps employees get their work done.

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Philip Sellers: Whether the reason that you do it is security or app compatibility, or some other use case. That's

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Philip Sellers: not the the point. I think the point is, the user experience is right now, and

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Philip Sellers: you know we talk about it every year. It's the year of Vdi. And so this this is one where I think all things have finally come together, and and we've solved so many of the problems. But our technology partners have invested

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Philip Sellers: decades making this possible for us. And we have a really good story in in this space today.

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Andy Whiteside: Yeah, I I like to think about that from a user experience getting it to where it's at security challenges being what they are. This is to me it's the year of no more VPN,

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Philip Sellers: which means

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Andy Whiteside: digital workspace. Vdi is a subset, has to happen.

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Andy Whiteside: has to happen between now and in the decade, because if I look up in 2,030,

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Andy Whiteside: and I still people, you still see people using VPN:

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Andy Whiteside: I don't. I don't think that's possible.

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Philip Sellers: Well, there's a another huge trend that's happened, and that that's your data and your applications, aren't all in the your data center anymore. They

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Philip Sellers: I I mean I I I the most cloud adverse customer I can think of

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Philip Sellers: has in 3, 65. They have, you know, a hosted email

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Philip Sellers: and things like that. So

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Philip Sellers: whether you can say that you're 100% on Prem or not, I I think there's some truth to the fact that part of your data is no longer in your

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Philip Sellers: your security boundary, and that forces us to talk about

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Philip Sellers: things like

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Philip Sellers: you know. Where's our data?

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Philip Sellers: Do we need to provide VPN access, and how much work can actually get done without it. And then

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Philip Sellers: can we make our security story so much better by eliminating wide open VPN: wide open data center networks.

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Philip Sellers: Yeah, there's there's a lot to talk about there.

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Philip Sellers: and I think that we can

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Philip Sellers: hope

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Philip Sellers: customers collectively together

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Philip Sellers: get a much stronger security posture. If if if we start taking away. VPN:

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Andy Whiteside: Yeah.

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Andy Whiteside: And I love what you just said to that, it's, it's the digital workspace, the secure digital work face space with high fidelity. It's the grand aggregator

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Andy Whiteside: of what you need to be an it. Shop, enterprise. Smb.

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Andy Whiteside: it offense

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Philip Sellers: absolutely.

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Philip Sellers: and you know the barriers to entry have have also changed, I mean, you know, with hyper scalars and so many different ways.

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Philip Sellers: You you, you don't have to have a full Callo. You don't have to host all this, and you don't have to be an expert, and everything there's so many managed service providers like Zantagra and others

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Philip Sellers: who can come along beside you. There's hyper scalars that you can work with. You know whether that sass or hosting, or whatever else

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Philip Sellers: you you've got a much

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Philip Sellers: easier path to running a really secure

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Philip Sellers: shot today.

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Philip Sellers: no matter what size business you are.

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Andy Whiteside: Yeah.

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Andy Whiteside: And it's all within reach, financially if you do it the right way.

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Philip Sellers: Yeah, I I mean it. It may take a little different than what you're accustomed to. There may be new terms you have to learn, and and a little bit of learning curve. But yeah, it's absolutely approachable and affordable. If you make

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Philip Sellers: smart choices.

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Yeah.

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Andy Whiteside: well, Philip, we'll come back next time we'll cover.

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Andy Whiteside: I don't know this section around. What is the architecture and the key components that type stuff. But for now we'll wrap this one up today, and I appreciate your time.

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Philip Sellers: I appreciate it, too.

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Philip Sellers: See everybody else on the

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Philip Sellers: next. I guess, Philip, you guys got you got some user Vmware user group stuff coming up right.

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Philip Sellers: We do for any of our listeners that happen to be kinda in the Carolinas. We will be hosting or we will be participating with the Vmog user Con.

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Philip Sellers: It's going to be in Raleigh for the Carolinas groups

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Philip Sellers: That's gonna be on May the ninth

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Philip Sellers: and

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Philip Sellers: you can get more information at Vmodecom.

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Andy Whiteside: Yeah, I'm really happy about you getting involved in being part of that community as part of an extension of us

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Andy Whiteside: in our community building efforts.

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Philip Sellers: Yeah, that's that's been definitely fun, and you know it's always been near and dear to my heart to share information and shared education. So I love the mug, and I I to be able to participate it with

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Philip Sellers: with my companies. Blessing and encouragement.

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Andy Whiteside: Go, do it that's awesome. What we're doing. All right, sir. Well until next time. Take it easy and enjoy

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Andy Whiteside: enjoy life and what you do for a living.

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Philip Sellers: Thank you, Andy.

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Andy Whiteside: See you later.